Speak Up Speak Out

Speak Up. Speak Out.
The Ethics Matter Podcast

Season Three

Where people meet to have fearless conversations about the things that matter.

Hosted by Charmaine Roche



Podcast Archive

Season Three #6 Anti-racism in Coaching-Part 2. View from the UK.

This final conversation in Season 3 is a study in vulnerability and courage for my guests. David Clutterbuck, Jonathon Passmore, Liz Hall and Fenella Trevillion all show up for a conversation about race, whiteness and ally ship. Enjoy.

Season Three #5 George Floyd 1st Anniversary Memorial Special

I have chosen to mark the anniversary of the murder of George Floyd by inviting back to the podcast four young women who helped me to find my bearings after he was killed on the 25th of May 2020.

The emotional tone of our second meeting as a group is very different from last year. I find myself taken off guard by the emotions of my guests; muted, wary, and worn from the effort that has produced small steps forward on the long road that remains to make real progress in racial justice.

Guest Info:

 Martha Da Costa Sherwood, Transformational Coach and Director.

Dr Ayesha Roche, Clinical Psychologist, NHS and Lecturer in Psychology, Nottingham Trent University.

 Cara Thompson,  Black Creative ,Writer, Public Speaker, Diversity and Inclusion Champion. 

Nicole Roche, MEd Educational Leadership, English Teacher, Senior Leader.

Season Three #4 Anti-racism in Coaching Part 1- View from the USA

I met Anita and Adra when they volunteered to contribute to the Anti-racism in Coaching research project that I am currently working on in collaboration with a global team. This extension of that conversation begins with an exploration of the challenges that face humanity in a broad sweep that takes in the trial of Derek Chauven, the myth of a post racial world and Megan and Harry’s challenge to the British Monarchy. We explore the complexity of Identity, the concept of Dunamis (listen to find out more about this), and social psychology as a tool for understanding power in coaching. Coaching as an investment in protecting and nurturing agency for the benefit of personal flourishing, to the benefit of society and social change. I have learnt so much from them. I hope that you gain some insights too.

Season Three #3 (R)evolution Coaching - Liberation from internalised oppression/s.

Coaching for Social Justice needs new paradigms and Liberation Psychology has drawn me as part of evolving coaching to serve social change. So it was a pleasure to meet another coach with a similar interest.

In this conversation with Amina Aitsi-Selmi we explore her genesis as from medical doctor to coach and discuss the role of liberation psychology in her work.

Season Three #2 People of the Global Majority - Decolonising Identity

Rosemary Campbell-Stephens and I tackle the complexity of the paradigm shift required in moving toward the concept of Global Majority to replace BAME or ethnic minority as a way of stepping into our power and responsibility toward humanising relationships and systems on our planet.

Season Three #1 Decolonising the mind: new paradigms for our tortured times

Bayo Akomalfe is a visionary and soul guide whose wisdom comes from a place of quiet defiance of Modernity and a dance with the preposterous. He refuses to be boxed or ‘othered’ or bound. Where do we go when the current limits of the struggle for justice and freedom turn us in on ourselves and tear us apart. Listen in and wonder.

End of Season Podcast Debate: What is the role of coaching in a world in need of healing and radical change? Season Two Episode #6

A panel of thought leaders from the coaching world debate three questions of importance:

Q1: Does coaching have a role to play in healing the social and political divides threatening the health of our democracies?
Q2: Does the rise of the ‘activist coach as in the Climate Coaching Alliance benefit or harm coaching as an ‘impartial’ helping profession?
Q3: Do we need a similar movement as the Climate Coaching Alliance to champion gender and racial equality in the workplace?

Guest Info

Zoe Cohen, Hetty Einzig, Dion Johnson, Hany Shoukry, Christian van Nieuwerburgh, Martin Vogel, Naomi Ward.

Show up, Speak Up and Shake Things the Hell Up. Season Two Episode #5

A conversation with Dion Johnson the womanologist. Dion Johnson is a coach, speaker, facilitator and author of Influential Woman.

Dion and I talk intimately about her new book, Influential Woman, and her mission to help women step into their power as leaders. Her unique combination of candour and ‘faith walk’ show up as she lives out what she aims to inspire in others.

Guest Info

Dion Johnson is a coach, speaker, facilitator and author of Influential Woman. Through her work she aims to  help senior women resolve personal challenges that get in the way of professional Influence and Impact with candid conversation and strategic ‘allyship’.


Dancing in the Dark. Season Two Episode #4

Are we forfeiting our right to be part of the eco-system we call earth?  Join me for this conversation with Katherine Long and Max Girardeau to explore what Living Systems thinking has to offer us as we dance in the dark.

Guest Info
Max Girardeau
Through his work with The Visionaries, Max helps secondary schools grow healthy and cohesive communities that role model to the education sector and to wider society what it is to live harmoniously. They partner with schools to co-create holistic developmental programmes for students, staff and adults in the wider school community. He guides school communities on collective inquiry and participatory learning journeys that help them to bring about their vision for education.

Katherine Long
With over 25 years in people development, Katherine offers a range of 121, team and large group interventions to support growth, learning and sustainable change. Eco-systems thinking and stake-holder based design are a key aspect of her work. Katherine actively engaged in developing practice thought leadership to support leadership and communities of practice across a range of sectors to fulfill evolutionary purpose, environmental and social outcomes at regional to global levels.

Coaching for Emancipation. Season Two Episode #3

Coaching for emancipation is a direct challenge to the westernised paradigm that informs the majority of coaching and coaching research. It challenges the uncritical approach that regards coaching a self-evident good in and of itself without consideration for the contexts in which it is practiced or the contexts from which clients come. The key question is: Can we help clients affected by oppressive contexts to reach emancipation? If so, what are our ethical duties?

Guest Info – Hany Shoukry

Born in Egypt, Hany started mentoring and coaching others since he was a teenager. Working within developmental initiatives, and created programmes, to support individuals and groups to grow, and to live fully. Whilst starting to coach individuals from several countries, Hany realised that, while everyone is unique, the social context has a deep impact on the individual’s development and choices. Hany then studied the phenomenon of oppression, how it becomes internalised, and how it denies a person or a group their humanity.

The future of Coaching - Disruption? Season Two Episode #2

Together my guests, Hetty Einzig, Naomi Ward and I discuss both the creative and destructive power of disruption and the role it can play in coaching as it evolves to meet current and future challenges.

Guest Info

Hetty Einzig

Hetty brings her training and practice in psychoanalytic and transpersonal psychology to her work. Combining embodiment and somatic intelligence with her coaching work, these diverse backgrounds enable her to contribute different perspectives, bringing together areas of thought, theory and practice often divided by tribal loyalties.

Naomi Ward

A  Professional Coach and Facilitator with 14 years experience as a teacher and Leader in Secondary Schools. Naomi’s company ‘Education Connected’ supports Education Professionals as they connect back to purpose, values and self-leadershiin

Feminist Transformational Leadership Development Coaching- a challenge to patriarchy and structural racism in the workplace?
Season Two Episode #1

In this first episode of the new season my three guests and I explore whether or not it’s time to decolonise leadership development coaching. Are traditional coaching and leadership models fit for purpose against patriarchy and structural racism in the workplace?

Guest Info:
Hannah Wilson
A dynamic educational leader who is a passionate diversity, inclusion & equality advocate. She is Director of Diverse Educators Ltd and co-founder of #WomenEd, a grassroots organisation that connects, develops & empowers aspiring & existing female leaders. She often acts as a mentor to women seeking to break the glass ceiling into leadership positions in the education sector.
Angela Browne
An experienced education leader with a background in primary, secondary and special education. She is skilled in Coaching, Executive Coaching, Inclusion leadership, CPD and training, Public Speaking, and Teacher Training.
Passionate about diversity in school leadership, developing leaders and creating schools that nourish.
Dr Stanley Arumugam
A Coaching Psychologist who serves Leadership for Social Change
Experienced in psychodynamic Leadership Coaching & OD Consulting to executives & senior leadership teams in the non-profit, public & private sector.
Lives and works in the Johannesburg Area, South Africa

George Floyd Special Edition
Season One Episode #6

This special edition has been commissioned to add our voices to the outrage, despair, pain and exhaustion being expressed in the global outcry against the brutal killing of George Floyd. Four black women, two of them my daughters, join me to process our reactions in the aftermath of the brutal and brutalising killing of George Floyd on May 25th, 2020. Listen into this intimate space of anger, grief, and commitment to work for change. A call of action, acknowledgement and healing.
This conversation is in 5 parts. Listen to segments or all in one go. It’s a heady ride.

Guest Info:  Martha Da Costa Sherwood, Transformational Coach and Director. Dr Ayesha Roche, Clinical Psychologist, NHS and Lecturer in Psychology, Nottingham Trent University. Cara Thompson,  Black Creative ,Writer, Public Speaker, Diversity and Inclusion Champion. Nicole Roche, MEd Educational Leadership, English Teacher, Senior Leader.

Speaking up: A fundamental expression of our humanity
Season One Episode #5

Charmaine Roche is an experienced consultant and executive coach building on an extensive career as a leader in the education sector. She is Director of LifeFlowBalance Coaching and Consulting Ltd, an organisation deeply committed to helping individuals and organisations flourish. She started her podcast in order to create a space to discuss the ethical dimensions of coaching and living in a complex world of churn and uncertainty. She believes that in ethics we can find an anchor.

The ethics of a climate conscious coach.
Season One Episode #4

Zoe Cohen talks about the formative impact of her parents on her formation as a climate conscious coach. This episode has it all. Opening with an ill chosen metaphor we sail on through laughter, tears, and honest reflections to a place of steadfast commitment.

Guest Info: As a highly experienced board-level director, and Master Coach, Zoe Cohen increasingly combines her two greatest passions: safeguarding the future of our one, shared planetary home; with enabling and encouraging people to shine and to take action.

Jane Fenton speaks up about ethical stress and social justice.
Season One Episode #3

Dr Jane Fenton speaks passionately about her journey from criminal justice social worker to university Dr of Philosophy working at Dundee university. Throughout her career she has been guided by a strong ethical framework forged in a politically conscious working class community. The cutting edge of her concern for the millennial generation of social workers who may have lost this link to the concept of social justice burns through our conversation.

Guest Bio: Dr Jane Fenton works at the University of Dundee. A researcher, she has a background in Criminal Justice Social Work. Her work on ‘ethical stress’ has been an inspiration in my own research area and I look forward to digging deeper into her understanding of how the dominance of neoliberal ideology and ‘managerialism’ affects professional conduct today.

Episode Links: Link to research papers

Viv Grant speak up about values dissonance and leadership.
Season One Episode #2

Viv Grant gets deep and emotional in this conversation. Her discourse reveals her to be in the tradition of the soul guide coach, feeling into the dissonance at the heart of headteacher’s struggles to align heart with role in a turbulent world.

Guest Bio: Viv Grant an Executive Coach and ex-headteacher works extensively with Heads and senior leaders in the education sector. She is passionate about supporting the emotional and psychological needs of school leaders whose sense of purpose, values and vocation is often at odds with the system they serve. 

Coaching is Political.
Season One Episode #1

Martin Vogel’s  recent article ‘Coaching is Political’ published in Coaching Perspectives is a call to arms for the coaching profession. We discuss his contention that coaching may be colluding with unethical practices in the workplace.  

Guest Bio : Martin Vogel, a Leadership Coach and Coach Supervisor, is also co-founder of VogelWakefield the Counter Consultancy. He helps senior executives and emerging leaders navigate complex challenges and he creates reflective space for coaches. Martin has a long interest in working with people leading creative teams and mostly works with leaders in the media, higher education and the cultural sector.

Episode Links: Martin’s Blog


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